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Hidden security tags in Old Navy jeans


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Posted on Sunday, January 22nd, 2006 at 6:41 pm CET

Yesterday when leaving the Praxis DIY store, their security alarm went off, so they asked me to empty my pockets, and take off my jacket, shoes and belt. But the thing kept beeping. After ten minutes of walking back and forth through the damn security gate and showing them over and over again that my pockets were all empty, they decided to let me go, probably thinking I swallowed a tool from their store or something. Back home I discovered a hidden sewn-in (!) security tag in my new Old Navy jeans.

The square 1.5″ tag with the text REMOVE BEFORE WASHING OR WEARING (see below) was hidden inside the jeans where I had never noticed it before, even though I had worn and washed the jeans several times since I bought them in December.

I have seen these RFID security chips before, but never hidden and sewn in a piece of fabric!! Who looks for that? I really think Old Navy should tell you about it, or at least put a sticker on the front that says something like “This item contains a hidden security tag, so don’t forget to cut it out before you set off lots of store alarms and totally embarrass the hell out of yourself.”

(Added 23 April 2008: Wow, I wrote this post over 2 years ago and it has received a lot of negative comments from Old Navy employees. Let me explain that I don’t mind that Old Navy uses these tags and that you have to remove them yourself. That is fine! I wrote this post because in the jeans that I bought the tag was hidden deep inside the pants and behind a flap of fabric that made it hard to find. That’s all. This may have changed in the meantime.)

Old Navy jeans security tag

 

Comments

Feb 7, 2006
10:05 pm
#1 Stacy wrote:

I had a similar experience. I purchased several new slacks and button down shirts as well as jeans. I kept sounding off alarms everywhere I went and they would make sure I was not stealing anything from their store. I finally realized after the 5th store that the tag was making them all go off. I can only assume that Old Navy did this to save time so their store employees would not have to remove security devices from clothes. From now on, I am going to make them remove the tags at the point of sale.

Feb 17, 2006
2:38 am
#2 Rebecca wrote:

Guys, if it says “remove before wearing” then clearly it’s meant to be removed…before you wear it. It’s not there to make it easier for the employees, it’s there to make the item harder to steal. It also makes it easier to try on clothing without having a big plastic thing hanging off of your shirt/etc. I think it’s rather rude to insist that the store employees cut the tags off; why can’t you just do it yourself?

Feb 21, 2006
4:31 pm
#3 ANdres wrote:

Rebecca,

I am not buying a TV neither a electronical device, I do not want to read any instructions, indeed, if we are talking about a small, kind of hidden, tag.

I think it is very disturbing to be embarrased because on the place where you bough your product, nobody warned about the security procedures they have installed and that assume it is your responsability to remove the tags later. Is the responsability of your shop to give you a ready to use article.

Feb 22, 2006
5:24 pm
#4 Kurt Nitsagen wrote:

When the alarm goes off, IGNORE IT AND KEEP WALKING OUT. The alarm is malfunctioning and that is not your problem. An alarm does not constitute a search warrant or a justification for arrest. Some alarms are triggered by an employee who watches people leave and makes the alarm go off.

When this happens to me, I just tell them that the malfunction is their business, but any assault upon me will be police business, then I pull out my cell phone and offer to call 911 if they interfere with my departure.

They generally make a note of my license and nothing ever happens.

Kurt

Apr 4, 2006
12:05 am
#5 Max Watson wrote:

“Remove before…wearing”? Guess that means you’ll have to bring scissors into the changing room, as it does direct you to cut it off before putting it on! Anyway, I just dismantled a plastic security tag with pliers as I’m now across the Pacific Ocean from the store that forgot to take it off.

Apr 15, 2006
1:32 am
#6 Bryan wrote:

They should inform their buyers, this is not a normal tag and not something you are prepared for. I set off alarms EVERYWHERE I went with these jeans on and finally it was a Target security officer that asked if I had bought them at Old Navy, Banana Republic, or the Gap, and he informed me of the hidden tag. The tag was deep on the inside below the right pants pocket and I didn’t even pay attention to it as it was yet another tag.

May 9, 2006
8:32 pm
#7 Ellie wrote:

I just noticed the tag in my pants and cut it off. Why, pray tell, would you thik it rude to request the tag be removed by staff, Rebecca. Are they not getting paid to sell clothes? Is not one of the duties of that job removing security attachments. I can understand their not wishing to remove all the tags (price and the like) but come on…
I think that is a little lazy. They know it is there, assuming they know the product, and therefore I say, be helpful (even without commission) and do the job.

May 25, 2006
7:16 pm
#8 ZildjianKX wrote:

Wow, I just discovered this hidden tag in my Old Navy jeans last night. I have been setting off store alarms for months, especially Target. I only noticed it because I was checking the size of my jeans on the inside.

I am very pissed about this. People have stopped me like I was a criminal for months. I even took off my glasses, my cell phone, my keys, my belt just to figure out what was causing it, I would never have thought to look in my jeans.

I’m writing a nasty letter to Old Navy, I suggest you do the same. Not to get legal, but this borderlines emotional and mental distress.

May 30, 2006
6:13 pm
#9 Sherri wrote:

I found one in a pair of old navy shorts. Saw it in the change room and removed it at home. Not very impressed…. i’m writing a nasty letter to old navy. Privacy is not an option.

Jun 21, 2006
8:52 pm
#10 J wrote:

…not to rain on the parade of oh-so-many Old Navy customers, but the tags don’t function at most stores and are completely redundant. If you noticed, the large thumb-tack security tags have been gone from many of the stores for quite a while.. these new tags are more useful for inventory than loss prevention, just like they are used at your local library, in technology products and on many many other items. If you’re worried about door sensors, don’t blame inactive and very common tags, try walking farther away from them. Most beep only because you walk too close, and not due to any security tags. As for the cashiers cutting off the tags, if that happens, I assume there will also be a complaint session about the length of your wait. I haven’t bothered remvoing any tags yet have faced no problems, despite walking by a security sensor nearly every day.

Oct 19, 2006
4:30 am
#11 Shari wrote:

That’s funny… I had that happen to me for a while, but it was not caused by any of my clothes… it just would happen when ever I went in or out of a store with the security gate…I wondered if my cell or something was causing it..I just keep on walking when they go off… and I would have been very upset at the store for making such a scene over it.

Nov 19, 2006
12:12 am
#12 Matt wrote:

I don’t care if the store cuts the tags off. Just let me know about it. After all who really reads the tags sewn into their clothes after they by them. I didn’t realize what was setting alarms off until I found this blog.

Nov 25, 2006
9:12 pm
#13 Susie wrote:

That thing went off at only two stores–Barnes and Noble and Kohls. That day, I decided to check my cords, which were the only relatively new things I had on, and found the tag.

Question: Why the heck didn’t the thing go off AT OLD NAVY where I bought the pants??

Dec 12, 2006
11:57 pm
#14 JD wrote:

Hey this happened to be latly….I was starting to get pissed. I usually ignor it and keep walking. Finally some lady at a hardware store stoped me and asked if I was weraring Old Navy Clothes. I was like yep from Head to Toe then she told me about this Tag…..I was like are you serious.
I really think that Old Navy needs to be telling there customes or something casuse there are hidden are very embarressing.

Dec 22, 2006
1:19 am
#15 robin wrote:

The fact that the tag is sewn into the item of clothing effectively means it is being left to the consumer to alter the garment from its original state at point of sale. With no guidance being given to the customer how can companies ensure that no damage will be done to clothing fitted with a tag when the customer is left to remove it. Either the store removes the tag or it isn’t sewn in in the first place as it is entirly unacceptable for people to have to deal with the hassle of removing preventative sucurity device which is presumably inapplicable to them and further more why should security in other stores be left to deal with this shambles!

Dec 22, 2006
2:10 am
#16 jen wrote:

People need to get over having to cut out their tags. They are there for loss prevention at Gap its other stores. If you are embarassed by setting off a security alarm in a store, well… its not that embarassing, it happens to loads of people and most think nothing of it. Old Navy employees do remove the tags, if they do not deactivate on their sensors. Get over having to cut out a tag and move on, there are bigger issues to deal with and your jeans are not one of them.

Dec 28, 2006
3:07 pm
#17 RTTKM wrote:

OMG!! You have got to be kidding me!! Is this what you have time to complain about?!? Ok….first off….KURT — retail establishments have the RIGHT to detain a customer if they have reason to beleive a violation has occurred. Alarms going off upon you exit constitutes a possible violation. Contrary to another posting, Old Navy employees are NOT able to trip the alarm at their will (there is no “magic button”). Come to my store…..I will show you how it works. Go ahead, call 911 — I will be glad to give them the address. Secondly….go ahead, ask the clerk to remove the tag…WE WILL!! No big deal. ROBIN — no guidance given? It states on the tag to REMOVE BEFORE WEARING OR WASHING…there is also a dashed line on it to show you where to cut. Should the cashier let you know the tag is there? Sure. But, it is also your duty as a consumer to inspect your goods.

Jan 4, 2007
5:27 am
#18 Patreek wrote:

I agree, have the cashier remove your tag for you. I was embarrassed in several stores b/c no one mentioned to me that I had extra security tags on my jeans. Old Navy will be publically rebuked for this. Also, I can’t even FIND the tag RTTKM!

Feb 6, 2007
3:37 am
#19 Kurt Nitsagen wrote:

RTTKM, I think you overlooked my central point. If you assault me, then you are commiting a crime. If it turns out that I have stolen something from you, then you will not be charged; I will. If it turns out that I have NOT stolen anything, then you will be charged, and I will certainly sue you, you personally and not as an employee of the store. Store employees are NOT instructed to assault people they suspect, so your employer will not stand behind you, but will fire you.

If you tell me that you, a store manager, order your employees to tackle somebody who ignores an alarm, I will laugh at you.

If you attack me because I walk out despite your damn beeper, then you will pay dearly and perhaps have a period in the cooler to rethink your decision.

Kurt

Feb 15, 2007
6:53 pm
#20 Jen wrote:

Hello,
I just happened to stumble on this thread. I too found the tag in my son’s Gap jeans after washing them for months and having him wear them. He is only 1 1/2 and can’t complain if it irritates him so it makes me mad they put it in children’s clothes too. My question, is there anything in them that can harm him from wearing them so many times since it specifically says remove before wahing or wearing. THanks. Worried mom here.

Feb 21, 2007
6:17 pm
#21 Dave wrote:

Rebecca is obviously a stupid bitch. Thanks for the article and the comments. I just read it and found the tag. I’ve been setting off the alarms for so long now. I can’t even remember how long I’ve had the jeans.

Yesterday I bought pillows at Target. Two of them. I was charged for 3 and stopped at Cust Serv to rectify the problem. I stood in line for twenty minutes, the problem was fixed. Then the security guy, who was a young dope who for some reason or other was staring at me since I checked out, grabbed me b/c my jeans set the alarm off. He said he believed it was my jeans but gets bored at his job and needed something to do.

Fucking aggravating!!!

Worst shopping experience of the month. Shopping these days SUCKS. Period.

PS- Rebecca is a stupid cow.

Feb 24, 2007
7:12 pm
#22 Heffay wrote:

It’s 2007. Figure it out people. The “scum of the earth” have successfully made life difficult. Look at the warning stickers at the McDonald’s drive up, deal with the stickers on all electronic devices, buy a new car and enjoy all the warning labels plastered all over the interior, and go shopping – where you can assume that everything you purchase has to be tagged for security. Because professional thieves have made it impossible for companies to turn a profit without protecting their assets.

Yes, sensor tags and pedestals are deterrents. They are generally NOT apprehension devices. You have the right to leave, and do not have to figure out why the alarm is sounding.

However, if you simply don’t like the inconvenience of having to remove a sensor tag…think back and remember the days of the HUGE plastic tags that the store had to remove….ever drive home an hour to find out that the tag had not been removed? Imagine the inconvenience of having to drive back to the store to have it removed. Also, books, and electronic devices have been tagged with worse technology for the past decade….most consumers are just too ignorant to realize that their goods are being monitored.

One solution would be to teach your children the difference between right and wrong. If retailers didn’t have to invest so much into asset management it would be one less factor driving prices up….but why would we want to start taking accountability for our actions when it’s more fun to sue a company?

The employees at the store don’t want to deal with the alarms and the tags anymore then you do as a consumer….but again, it’s 2007 and that’s the reality we live in.

Feb 25, 2007
11:43 am
#23 todd ireland wrote:

just found a tag in my TRUE RELIGION jeans. Had to cut it
out. Had no idea..no idea……

Feb 26, 2007
12:02 am
#24 Chris wrote:

I work at old navy part time on weekends and in a perfect world, those sensors are supposed to deactivate at the register when you pay….there is a black pad on the counter at each register that demagnetizes it when the item is folded on top. however…the world is not perfect and they frequently do not get demagnetized.

in response to:
“With no guidance being given to the customer how can companies ensure that no damage will be done to clothing fitted with a tag when the customer is left to remove it.”

you are actually stupid, because there is huge lettering on the tag that says “remove before wearing or washing” and there is also a line that says “cut here” with a picture of scissors next to it”….i think thats guidance enough for me…unless you are too frickin STUPID to cut a tag out of some pants…honestly…who needs directions to cut a tag out of some pants.

…the millions of dollars the company loses to people who steal is a good enough reason in my opinion to use these tags…and whats worse? having to cut out the tag urself. ..or getting home with one of those older style pin security tags that you cant remove without having to go back to the store. thats more of an inconvenience to me.

i love working at old navy…but helpless customers who bitch and think the world revolves around them piss me off.

Feb 26, 2007
1:20 pm
#25 Alex wrote:

@ Chris:
It’s not that it is a bad thing to put the tags in and the tags are certainly clearly marked, but the problem is that these tags are hidden deep inside the pants, and a lot of people don’t notice them.

It is like hiding something underneath a car that says “remove before driving” and then expect new car owners to spontaneously crawl under the car to find the notice.

What about putting the tags higher up in the pants so that you can spot it when you put them on? Or put them on the outside, or inside a pocket so you can feel it?

Feb 28, 2007
6:54 am
#26 Elise wrote:

Hello, I’m an Old Navy cashier. The tags are there solely for loss prevention. Most tags are in plain sight and most of our inventory does not have them. Just cut the tag off at home, we deactivate it for you at the store, then you get to do your part. If you wish for us to cut them out, prepare for longer lines, which most customers complain about already. So, instead of waiting in line longer, just take a few moments at home and tear the tag out (most of them tear out without the need for scissors) or grab a pair of scissors and cut along the dotted line that says “cut here”

Apr 1, 2007
10:59 pm
#27 Amanda wrote:

I actually work at a GAP Inc. store and I think the tags are annoying at times, but necessary. Shoplifting is a huge problem and if we went around telling everyone what the tag meant then the tag would not be a security device at all.

Apr 5, 2007
2:31 am
#28 Joel wrote:

The simple fact of the matter is that these tags are placed inside articles of clothing to prevent them from being stolen! They are not in every article of clothing, and are not easily removed to make it harder to determine what clothing items might contain them, and to deter people from simply taking them off.

It is not my job as a clerk to remove any tag from an article of clothing. The fact is that it would make a huge impact on the wait time for customers at the register if we had to remove all of these tags.

On top of that these tags are not comfortable. No one ever noticed the metalic insert in this tag poking you in the side?

Apr 5, 2007
2:38 am
#29 Joel wrote:

and just a side note. Maybe you people should do a little research on what the difference is between an RFID tag, and the loss prevention tags used in most retail stores.

Apr 29, 2007
11:30 pm
#30 kathy wrote:

i’ve had a pair of jeans setting off alarms everywhere and inspected them and even cut off a metal bar on the waistband thinking that was it. it wasn’t until i googled it and foundout about the sewnin tag. i understand about loss prevention, but at least they could tell you when you buy the pair so you don’t go about wearing them setting off alarms everywhere. at least now i know, so i’ll know to check all new clothing i buy…

May 6, 2007
6:36 pm
#31 Ed wrote:

GET OVER IT!

May 20, 2007
4:57 am
#32 Jane wrote:

After reading all these comments, It is amazing this is the number one country in the world…. when Americans are sooo STUPID and LAZY to not even look inside the things they buy. Don’t you wash clothes and inspect the pockets, and turn clothes inside out before… hint, hint, they last longer. I am ashamed to be an American, no wonder we are the laughing stock of the world.

Jun 3, 2007
12:55 am
#33 Julia wrote:

Are you that f*cking stupid that you would insist that Old Navy tell people that the tags are there? It’s bad enough scum bags come in and rip them out, but lets warn them so they can bring their own pair of scissors next time. I work at an Old Navy and there is a procedure to make the tags deactivate, its called a magnetic strip, you rub the articles of clothing on it, do you think we rub for no reason? You have to assume that there is something in the clothing that is making the security device go off.

Jun 7, 2007
7:02 am
#34 John wrote:

I work at Old Navy.
The tags are in very few items of clothing sold at the store.
Further, the tags are all supposed to be deactivated at the register when the item is purchased. If the tag does not deactivate the cashier will know and is supposed to physically remove it for the customer so that they do not set off the alarm when they leave the store.
They say to remove before washing or wearing because if the deactivated tags are washed they can become reactivated and set off alarms in almost every store.
So, just remove your tags, and you will be good to go.
Old Navy does its part to deactivate or remove the tag, by not reading/removing the tag you are actually reactivating it and causing yourself trouble.

Jun 13, 2007
4:40 am
#35 Eddie wrote:

“retail establishments have the RIGHT to detain a customer if they have reason to beleive a violation has occurred.”
Since when? You or any other person that isn’t a law enforcement officer lays a hand on me, you’re gonna find yourself on the ground. When a person has nothing wrong and is assaulted leaving a store (unwanted touching of ANY kind is an assault) they have the right to defend themselves…and later sue the dickens out of ya!!!

Jun 16, 2007
1:52 pm
#36 Alex wrote:

“Not to get legal, but this borderlines emotional and mental distress.”

Wow, I sincerely hope you were being sarcastic ZildjianKX; however I fear that you weren’t.
Amazing that we then wonder why people win law suits with such stupid arguments as “I didn’t know that the coffee was hot…”

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, I also work retail, and reading comments like I’ve read here I’m reminded why I dislike dealing with most customers. Not noticing a THIN tag that clearly states “Remove before washing and wearing” for fear you will set off store alarms causes “emotional and mental distress”?
If that’s the case then perhaps all retail employees should be offered therapy by the corporation or company for the distress customers cause US.

Please, give me a break; it’s just a bloody tag that is desensitized half the time anyway. Cut it off and move on with your life.

And as for the person who claims it’s a “duty” of associates to remove all tags; as an associate, it’s my job to SELL you the clothes. That’s all. Just to get you to the cash register with your purchase and ring it in. Of course, if you ASK me to remove it, I will, but after you swipe your credit card and the receipt is printed, my job is done – what you do with your clothes after that is up to you.

Jun 27, 2007
4:37 am
#37 ReeRee wrote:

What happens when you have no idea that the tag is even in the clothing and your 2 year old wears his swimsuit while swimming and suffers severe burns on his inner thigh that leaves scarring and after the second time this happens you wonder if it might be the swimsuit causing it and you turn the suit inside out and find the tag that in bold letters say PLEASE REMOVE BEFORE WASHING OR WEARING…that’s good to know after the fact…huh. I would think at checkout the clerk would either remove the tag or at least alert the customer that it’s there especially since the item has been paid for. My child endured pain and injury for that LOVELY tag.

Jul 1, 2007
4:28 pm
#38 katie wrote:

i own a clothing store and i cannot tell you the amount of lost time and aggravation these tags have caused me. I spent a good amt. of money on a checkpoint system when i opened the store and NOW, i spend most of my time running to the front of the store when the alarm goes off and trying to expain to people why they either have to 1) remove the tag in our fitting room or 2) leave their bags at our counter while they shop.

this has already the markings of a huge shoplifting scam…”OOOH, so sorry i set off your alarm, i’m wearing gap jeans you see”…then BEEEEP as they walk out w/stolen merchandise and you do nothing about it ’cause they set off the system walking IN…didn’t the gap corp. think about this BEFORE they signed on to use rifd tags??? Bunch of idiots!!!!!

Jul 3, 2007
3:02 am
#39 Suzie wrote:

holy fuck, all this debate over tags…
i guess it could be pretty annoying, but i have like 5 pairs of jeans from old navy and i noticed the tags like right away. it’s kinda hard to ignore a plastic thing wrapped in fabric scratching up your thighs, or is that just me?
it would be sweet if they cut the tags off to prevent this so called ’embarassment’ or whatever you guys are bitching about…but really, it’s a god damn TAG. just cut it off and maybe stop being divas.

Jul 24, 2007
6:42 am
#40 Ali wrote:

honestly…
when your standing there, ringing up loads and loads of clothes, trying to ignore the fact that even though your going as fast as you can your line keeps getting longer and longer, and all your coworkers are ignoring the fact that your all alone at the registers and your freaking out…you really dont have time to sit there and cut out all the security tags. i worked at the old navy at the mall of america, and now one in a much smaller town, and i know for a fact that most customers get annoyed when i hold up the line so i can cut out the security tags. and this claim that they are hidden…okay, on the jeans, the security tag is on the inside of the front seem, meaning that unless you fold it over, you wont be able to zip up your jeans without running the zipper into it. so basically, it’s right there.

the security tags are a good thing. if we didn’t have them, people would be able to steal the clothing easier, so the cost of the clothing would go up…and old navy is a relatively cheap clothing store.

and if the security tag deactivater doesnt deactivate your clothing, and you beep at the door, most of the time, we just let you go…our security things go off when a certain kind of cell phone goes through…

so all in all…give the employees a break.

Jul 24, 2007
4:57 pm
#41 ReeRee wrote:

Ali,
Just so you know…the sensor tag was in the inner thigh seam below the liner of my 2 year old’s swimsuit and if your looking from the waist you can’t see it because swimsuits have liners so you have to turn it inside out to find it and I didn’t even know the thing was in there because I haven’t seen them before and so my son swam in it twice and suffered severe burns that left scarring on his inner thigh because when it happened the first time I was totally puzzled as to what had caused it but then 2 weeks later he swims in that suit again and it happened again and that is when we decided to check the suit and when we turned it inside out there lays a tag that reads PLEASE REMOVE BEFORE WASHING OR WEARING….if it’s too much trouble to remove them at checkout then you need to at least alert the customer that there is a tag in there that needs to be removed because if it is swam in it could cause severe burns. I understand it is a theft device but when you’ve purchased the item then it is no longer at risk of being stolen. I will gladly wait in line if it means precautionary meaures are being taken to prevent other incidents like the one we’ve encountered.

Jul 25, 2007
2:27 am
#42 dani wrote:

I kept getting the alarm set off on me. I got to the point were i was about to go nuts trying to figure out what it is!!!!!!! This helps a lot. Thanks!!!

Jul 25, 2007
8:00 am
#43 Arthur wrote:

@Ali:
1. Letting people go when the door beeps defeats the whole purpose of the security device;
2. When you let people go with an active security tag without telling them about it you know they will set off alarms in other stores;
3. The tag is not always in a place where you can see it; mine was half-way down inside a pair of pants;
4. Cashiers don’t need to spend time taking them out. They can either just mention them (“There’s a security tag right here you’ll need to take out when you get home”), or the factory can put a sticker on the outside of the item to warn people of the hidden tag inside.

Jul 25, 2007
5:33 pm
#44 Tom wrote:

Maybe we should not buy Old Navy products or any other company who insist on putting these devices on their products. This is just the beginning of the rise of this orwellian security state. Everyone is suspect even decent law abiding citizens. Just listen to some of the comments most people just accept it as oh well we will just have to be more incovenienced so multinational corporations can make jaw dropping profits. WAKE UP people. This is all part of mental conditioning to accept this type of security/ serveillance device in ever product you buy. First off you can phsically rip these tags out with no problem(I did with a pair of jeans) being that they are double stitched. So ask you self if a true theif would be detered by this strickingly obvious deterent. So after answering the previous question ask yourself what is the true motivator behind these devices. Could it be slow intoduction to create public acceptance, while these devices are used by the state and local governments for much more devious surveillance procedures and LEGAL spying . Think about it?????

Jul 28, 2007
5:59 am
#45 Bryan wrote:

Wow, why are people freaking out about something as miniscule as security tags inside clothing? You want to know why your clothes go off at other places like Target? You are supposed to remove the tag when you purchase the products. The tags are deactivated instore when you check out, but if you forget to remove it, a lot of dryers can reactivate them. That’s you go off again at other stores. It’s not that hard to cut it out. And if you want the associate to cut it out, ask them nicely and they will. I work for Old Navy and explain this to people all the time. But seriously, it isn’t that big of a deal to just cut it out and throw it away when you buy it.

Jul 30, 2007
7:04 am
#46 ONLP wrote:

I’m a loss prevention agent for Old Navy/GAP inc.. In a way it cracks me up to see so many people whine and cry about these tags. Why don’t you all get a fucking clue and cut them out after you buy them?

Oh.. and the next time I catch a shoplifter i’ll tell them that we’re going to start putting a big sign that says, “There’s a hidden tag that makes you beep when you walk out of the store, so make sure to rip it out first!”

get a clue

Jul 31, 2007
2:54 am
#47 tmm wrote:

Honestly people, who knew that a security tag would cause such an uproar! My question is to those of you bitching, now that you realize that select merchandise in Old Navy have security tags that should be cut out .. do you cut them out?
I have spoken to many customers that have told me, as they are walking out and setting off the alarm that they have indeed seen the tag , but never bothered to cut it out. The typical reaction is ” oh, is that why it says to cut out before washing and wearing ?” Yeah you dumb ass!!
It seems to me that our culture has become lazy and expects things to be done for them. Once the merchandise leaves the store YOU are now the responsible party for removing the tags… for shits sake do you want the associates to go home and wash and dress you too? Do something for yourself and maybe ponder perhaps greater things of concern in the world.

To the mom whose child was burnt, how do you know it was the tag? I ask this b/c I truly am interested in knowing how the tag actually caused the burns.

If you as a consumer really have an issue with the tags…take your business else where or just suck it up like everyone else.

Aug 14, 2007
4:48 am
#48 Emily wrote:

HELLO! it’s not that hard to see a tag by the zipper of your pants or on the side of your shirt, its not hard to feel it either.
No employee is going to cut the tag out for you, especially since its not hard to see but hello if you return the item than it can be easily stolen without the tag in it.
If you really think that the tag is hidden then maybe you need to opened your eyes and take a better look at your clothes. Old Navy isn’t the only store that has the tags to, most stores require a tag like that for security purposes.
And i might all its not so we have to do less work we do enough cleaning up after all you people cause you could care less if you mess something up because its not yours and your rude. And i’m sorry that your all to lazy to take 2 seconds to cut a tag off something. grow up.

Aug 14, 2007
4:56 am
#49 Emily wrote:

oh and Ellie, Its not our job to remove a tag for you, DO IT YOURSELF. it’s not hard. Its common sense that you check your clothes before wearing them. and you cant return an item that has had any tags cut out of it.
I bet your one of those rude people that could careless if they make a mess of a store or not.

Aug 18, 2007
11:42 pm
#50 Sandy wrote:

Wow i cant believe so much uproar is being caused over a stupid tag…i know i bother some people that it sets off alarms and i know that stores cant boast the fact that theres a tag in their clothes but honestly, theres an easy way to settle this…tell your customers when you give them the bag…there not gonna steal that once its bought…or have it written on the receipt that way if some thing hapens they cant blame it on you…

Aug 24, 2007
3:58 pm
#51 ashley wrote:

if you don’t feel the tags on you when your wearing them then you must truly be and idiot they are made out of a thicker material then the actual clothes. I work at old navy and I know first hand that a lot of the costumers ask what the big black pad is in front of me and why I scan the clothes over them. If the tag can not be demagnetized then it beeps and we cut the tags out. Sometimes they don’t buzz and it beeps when you go out. But I know that in my store if it does beep when you go out of the store we make sure to tell the customers that there are those tags in the clothes and to make sure to remove them before wearing. But honestly if you can’t feel them on your body when you put them on for the first time you must not really pay attention to what the sharp thing jabbing into the side of your stomach/leg are.

Sep 2, 2007
6:14 am
#52 Amanda wrote:

i also work at an old navy and our security gates go off nearly every time a person walks out, and in, the store. i don’t know about the rest of the old navy stores out there but at ours we tell every customer to cut the tags out. and agreeing with ashley, i don’t know how you can’t feel the tag when you wear the pants. i forgot to cut it out of a pair of pants i got a few months ago and i wore the jeans all day and wasn’t able to cut the tag out until later. when i took them off to cut it out, i had a big rash on my leg that i could feel all day. the tag rubbing on my leg was the worst feeling ever, i don’t know how anyone could not notice. and the issue of having tags in kids clothes…it is frustrating that your child had to deal with the tag if you didn’t know it was there, however, children’s clothes are easiest to shoplift because they’re much smaller. so it’s even more important for the tags to be in there.
i agree, the employees should let you know that there are tags that need to be cut out, but not ALL employees neglect to tell the customer about the tag.

Sep 6, 2007
1:50 am
#53 Carla wrote:

ReeRee: I highly doubt your child was BURNED unless the tag (which has NEVER been in the inner thigh) somehow caught fire or became extremely hot and then one would hope you would realize you child’s swimshorts in flames or him screaming in pain. At most he received a rash, some type of chaffing. I have never seen or heard of chaffing that resulted in permeant scarring but I am not an expert in skin conditions so I’ll let that go. Is there a chance you stretched the truth a bit to get your point across?

As someone who has worked in retail for several years these tags serve on purpose: to stop people from stealing our merchandise. Do you realize that shoplifter steal 19,000 to 25,000 of merchandise a MINUTE in the US. I don’t know about anyone else but that’s a lot of money (1,140,000 to 1,500,000 an hour, 10-13 billion a year) When stores see that much of our merchandise disappearing to be sold for profit by someone else they tend to get a little upset. I too think the tags are ridiculous, but not for the same reasons most of you do. Too many people walk out with merchandise because they claim they are wearing something with a tag in to, or rip the tags out for associates to find throughout the store. I say go back to the big old tags that need to be removed by the cashier. However, I’m sure these companies have examine this tag issue from all angles and the sewn in tags seem to be the best choice. Complaining online will not do anything, write an actual letter (do try to use punctuation as it makes you letter read better and gives you some creditability). Keep in that mind that whatever you want, someone else won’t and will complain until it changed. Or maybe its better to take what you’ve learn from yours and others awful experiences and check for tags. I’m sure it’ll take a lot less time and energy than bitching about it.

Sep 6, 2007
3:09 am
#54 trevor wrote:

OH MY GOD, i getting a book on my first day of classes, and i kept setting off the store alarms, and i finally asked a woman working there what could be doing it, she said it might be my cellphone, but i’m sooo glad i found this..

Sep 7, 2007
4:20 am
#55 Amber wrote:

If you ask the workers to take off the tags we will hate you. That would be so annoying. Don’t be such a lazy customer and learn to remove them yourself. I find it hard to believe that you did not look inside your pants before you put them on.

Sep 12, 2007
3:40 am
#56 Neil Thompson wrote:

I Had This Same Experience, Recently i went to Rexall and Walked in, then the alarm went of, the lady came up to me and this is quoted, “Are You wearing Old Navy pants?” and i yes, “yes…” and she let me go, so i decided to look it up on google and found this page. thanks a lot for the page. this happened like, 5 times.

Sep 18, 2007
6:23 pm
#57 Emily wrote:

i highly doubt that someone actually asked if you were wearing clothes from old navy cause fyi we aren’t the only store that has security tags in their clothes. The tags do what the are suppose to do and that is stop idiots from stealing clothes. So get over it and have more common sense and cut the tag out its pretty damn obvious that its in there, although if you don’t notice something thick and bulky in your clothes well than you have a problem.

Sep 18, 2007
6:27 pm
#58 Emily wrote:

HEY KURT!
you yourself need to go up, people that actually care stop and let someone know that they were to stupid to cut a tag out of their pants and thats why they are beeping well the ones that don’t care walk out are the ones whom are going to look like a thief are going to be the ones that get watched every time they return to that store. so have some common sense cut the tag out or don’t be an ass when an alarm goes off because your just to lazy to cut a tag out.

Sep 19, 2007
8:07 pm
#59 Jennifer wrote:

I’ve been purchasing maternity clothing at Old Navy lately and was also perplexed as to why I’d been setting off alarms at every store I went to. Finally figured it out … but what i CAN’T figure out is why I’m not setting off the alarms at Old Navy itself, when I walk out with my new purchase with UN-deactivated tag!!!!!

Sep 21, 2007
5:23 am
#60 kelly wrote:

They are deactivated in the store but when you wash them, the dryer reactivates them, so cut them out.

Sep 25, 2007
10:11 pm
#61 Sandy wrote:

Ok, I work at Old Navy, and I have to say that these tags are pretty hard to not notice, because they are pretty big, (and I have to admit scratchy if you feel them against your leg) and most of the time you can see them through the shirt. We have electronic devices that deactivate the tag upon purchase, but are more than happy to cut them off for you if you don’t feel like doing it yourself. To me, it just seems easier to have a tag like this, where you can remove it yourself, rather than having a plastic one that someone forgets to take off, and you have to return to the store to have it removed.

If you’ve been stopped by security in another store to have your pockets turned, this is insulting, and to me a bit unconstitutional. It may not be the tag in your pants also, a lot of other things might set it off: your cell phone, ipod, and other magnetic devices. So even if you don’t have one of these tags sewn into your clothes, you may still set the darn buzzer off.

By having tags like these, the stores are offering convenience to you, as to not have to return to the store to have the tag removed, and to keep the price of the merchandise down, to not have to buy expensive tags and to also regulate theft.

Oct 3, 2007
3:26 am
#62 Ty wrote:

oh my god thanks for letting me know what that is I got my jeans from the Gap and they have the same identical tag wow just imagine the embarrassment you saved me…… so just know they are in Gap jeans as well ……thanks for posting the info with the picture…..great help

Oct 20, 2007
4:19 am
#63 Greg wrote:

Carla, you sound like an idiot. I bet you don’t have many friends and that’s why you’re posting LONG ridiculous comments on here, with your NO LIFE SELF.

Oct 20, 2007
4:20 am
#64 ReeRee wrote:

I agree with Greg.

Oct 24, 2007
2:34 am
#65 Melmel wrote:

I’ve been wearing my Old Navy jeans for a while now and it was getting really irritating to set off the alarms at some stores. I used to work at Boston Store and we used the big, hard, plastic tags. If they were left on clothes customers knew – and complained to no end – about it. One of my responsibilities was to make sure that these tags were removed because we didn’t want our customers getting embarrassed. This added less than a minute to each sale, so it wasn’t like it was an enormous burden on me or the customers. I don’t understand why Old Navy can’t just be like every other store and use the same tags.

I wouldn’t be so mad, and there wouldn’t have been a problem at all, if the sales associates at Old Navy had bothered to tell me about the tag. I’m not in the habit of searching through my new jeans, so how was I to find out about the tag that looks like every other tag in a pair of jeans? If it weren’t for this, I’d still be setting off alarms.
Thanks

Nov 9, 2007
2:57 am
#66 Gabby wrote:

I completely agree with Rebecca

I LOVE OLD NAVY =]

it’s up to you, the consumer…maybe actually look at what you are wearing before you go walk around town in it. I don’t know about you people, but I noticed the so called “hidden” tag right when I tried it on in the store. They are not “hidden” and not meant to be. Open up your eyes! It’s just a security measure, geez…

Nov 13, 2007
7:18 am
#67 Megan wrote:

Okay, I know this is an old blog…

The security tag is deactivated at the point of sale by a magnetic pad located behind the cashrap. The tag is demagnatized. It clearly can be felt in the clothes and customers should obviously notice that they need to cut it out. Tags are actually re-activated by the static in tumble-dryers.

Yes, we do get a few “dead” tags that the pads fail to detect at the POS, but it’s not our duty to cut them out for you. Imagine how many customers would get even more pissed off if they had to wait for you to remove every single one of them. Simply take a pair of scissors and cut through it. You don’t have to get it out, just cut a slice or a hole in it and you’re fine.

Also, imagine the oldschool pins and tags that most stores used to have. You think they come like that via shipment? No, those pin and tags have to be poked and snapped and closed 1 at a time in the roll-out process by Gap, Old navy, and Banana employees like me. That’s one of the many reasons that these new tags have been introduced into the system. I’m personally thankful for them, they do prevent loss, and they are very effective.

I am ranting about this I guess… because I get really sick and tired of some of the idiots who have had the nerve to blame the tag/alarm issue on me instead of taking responsibility for overlooking a rather large, sharp tag that’s right in the front part of the crotch of a pair of jeans where you can clearly see it.

Don’t hate the tag. Wouldn’t you rather have something small to cut out yourself instead of having to bring it back to us to use those old pressure point machines to remove them?

Nov 15, 2007
8:28 pm
#68 Gardania Chavez wrote:

what had happend was i was in the victoria secret with my boy friend a nd they thought i stole a thong.

Nov 19, 2007
9:51 pm
#69 Rolando wrote:

Wow, you people are retarded; especially the one who wrote this article. The reason jeans and shirts have that secret tag is so people wont steal from stores!!! If the jeans had a sign infront of them the said β€œThis item contains a hidden security tag, so don’t forget to cut it out before you set off lots of store alarms and totally embarrass the hell out of yourself.” I think a possible shoplifter would be like “Oh! Thank you old navy for helping me steal these jeans without being noticed.” Think old navy cares more about their merchandise than your own embarrassment. And its not just old navy that does this. So when you get home just check your clothe. Its not that hard.

Nov 23, 2007
7:55 pm
#70 Anti-consumerism wrote:

I took a dress from there not knowing it had a tag. But left anyway.

I AGREE with you, there should be some warning.

Nov 26, 2007
4:33 am
#71 Caitlin Loughran wrote:

Oh my god Kurt, you would Sue someone just for checking to make sure you weren’t shoplifting when the alarm goes off? It takes ten seconds at the most for security to just look at your receipt, and if you act like that causes you emotional distress and embarrassment you make me sick. You are a dishonest, slimy person who would want to profit off anyone. Nothing unjust has been done to you. Get over yourself.

Nov 28, 2007
8:56 pm
#72 ashley wrote:

alright i just came across this, and i work at old navy.
we have a magnetic square thing at the register that we put the clothes on that demagnatizes the article of clothing so the beeping in other stores would not go off.

so im assuming the cashier didnt put the pants on the square, or racked the clothing so high on the square that the jeans didnt reach the demagnatizer thing.

Dec 1, 2007
10:21 am
#73 benny wrote:

Wow I just came across this and wondered if this is why my GAP jeans have been setting off alarms in Taipei. I had no idea why one time and an employee said sometimes clothes bought overseas set off the alarm. It must be because of this!!

I looked at my GAP jeans just now and cut the tag.

Dec 11, 2007
4:33 am
#74 Wylie Tudisco wrote:

I used to shop at Gap, and noticed the thing right away. Whenever I get new clothes, I examine the whole thing for tags, unless you go shopping for cheap clothes every single day and work 2 full time jobs all week and don’t have the time to cut off your tags so you can play WoW or something, you shouldn’t be complaining.
Old Navy’s a cool store and you shouldn’t just not shop there because you didn’t cut of a tag. It’s not hidden hidden from buyers, it’s hidden from shoplifters. Take 5 minutes to examine your new clothes for tags that are gonna “emberrass the crap out of you” and actually CUT THEM OFF.

Jan 6, 2008
11:34 am
#75 Yama wrote:

I *just* noticed the tag in my jeans. I didn’t feel like cutting it out if i didn’t have to, so i asked the knower-all of the world’s information: google. So apparently if i had put my jeans through a dryer I would have set off a store alarm at some point. good thing i hardly ever wash my jeans, haha. So i actually took the time to read all the comments above me, and I think I’m unlucky because my tag was attached to the back of my right pocket and pressed against the right ass-cheek of my jeans. I never felt them/saw them. I don’t consider myself an idiot. Who knows, maybe I am…maybe I’d sue McDonald’s for spilling coffee on myself as well, but I’d at least like to think that I’m a decent enough person to know the boundary between something that’s common sense and something isn’t. Coffee = hot is common sense… jeans = microchip attached to back of inner right pocket that must be cut out before wearing or washing……….not so much.

Jan 6, 2008
11:40 am
#76 Yama wrote:

Note: “Microchip” was an exaggeration…it’s more of a magnetized (or demagnetized, in a perfect world) metal strip. Just wanted to clear that up before somebody calls me a stupid, lazy idiot cause that seems to be happening quite often.
I just hope Old Navy realizes how bad of an idea it is. I could care less about itching or setting off store alarms…(although that would piss me off quite a bit)…
I feel bad for the people who actually set off alarms…

Jan 18, 2008
2:42 pm
#77 Jen wrote:

I work for a company that makes these tags. I’ve heard numerous complaints about them, but I haven’t heard any good suggestions on alternative security measures. How would you recommend we stop theft and make it convenient for the customer?

Jan 24, 2008
2:21 am
#78 Lauren wrote:

I have been with Old Navy for 5 years and I have to agree with all my fellow employees on here. How have consumers NOT noticed this tag that is located in the same area in nearly every pair of pants and shirts we sell? It is not hard to cut out yourself. I can understand people wanting us to cut them out for them at the register and that’s great- unless you are buying a crap load of stuff and I have a line forming behind you. During the Holiday season or when we have huge sales and people are buying a lot of merchandise it becomes even more important that we give a speedy checkout because otherwise customers complain. These tags are bulky, and stiff, and itchy if you let it rub against your leg or stomach all day- how do you not notice it? And in kids’ clothes they are even easier to spot because the clothes are so tiny to begin with. Stop complaining and open your eyes. You’ve heard the old adage- “buyer beware”, well get a clue and inspect your clothes before you wear them.
And a few more things to help people be better consumers- don’t leave your trash about (every register has a trash can), don’t change your child’s diaper on a table of tee shirts (it has happened), don’t spit your tobacco on the floor please, don’t unfold every shirt you touch, most likely- the bigger sizes will be on bottom, our store is not chucky cheese’s so please control your kids, most newer Old Navys have large neon signs and arrows that point to the fitting room- LOOK UP, those shoes with wheels your kid wears- most likely we all are secretly wanting to trip them because they are annoying, learn to read the signs- if a sign says ‘capris $15’ don’t bring us a skirt that was next to it and try to tell us the sign said it was on sale, and lastly- don’t act like a pig- would you just leave food on your clothes at home? Just helpful reminders.

Jan 31, 2008
6:17 am
#79 Kelly wrote:

Wow, some people are really wired.

I work at Old Navy and we have demagnetizers (they’re the big black boxy things beside the registers) that demagnetize the tags and essentially make them just another piece of cloth inside your item of clothing. They work 9/10 times and usually, once they’re demagnetized, they don’t remagnetize. So, the people here are a really tiny selection of all of the people that get our clothes and don’t cut the tags out and don’t have an issue.

I think they’re better than those big, bulky plastic things anyway. It is better for us if the tags aren’t blatently hanging off the shirt…just for loss prevention reasons, obviously.

Lots of places have them. Just check your clothes before you wear them…not that difficult…chill out.

Feb 2, 2008
3:58 pm
#80 PJ wrote:

This happened to my little 3 year old granddaughter last weekend! She was wearing a dress and coat I had bought her from Old Navy. Then as they were leaving a Target store where they were shopping and set off the alarms, the security guy asked them if the clothes she was wearing were from Old Navy. My daughter told him they were, and he said they get a lot of alarms from ON clothes. But our poor little granddaughter was almost in hysterics, thinking the “policeman guy” was going to “put her in jail.” It is stupid, stupid, stupid, no matter how much you want to defend Old Navy, for NOT telling people at the time they are rightfully purchasing the clothes that there are EXTRA tags inside which can set off alarms! I mean, come on! Who goes through every inch of the INSIDE of their new clothes, AFTER you removed the outside, obvious ones, looking for SPECIAL, EXTRA tags???

Feb 4, 2008
3:54 am
#81 went to gap today wrote:

I would say this. This seems to me to be a baiting tactic by large corporations who must maintain dividends in spite of shoplifting. Shoplifting is not actually a problem so much as letting people have clothes without paying for them. (I work for a major clothing store and we waste large quantities of clothes daily. Do any of you old navy/gap employees send out old clothes? In fact keeping up with fashion trends seems to be a far more major concern in terms of turning a profit. I think that these tags have been used as a sort of shoplifter net to apprehend a large amount of shoplifters for one year, thus cutting loss for that and the next quarter, and earning CEO’s and shareholders a nice bonus. A little time in jail is probably the best loss prevention technique. This, at the expense of pissing off customers/employees for a year or so may have been well worth it. Anyways, once you all get a little TV in you, you’ll get warm and cozy and go back to your Britany spears/heath ledger blogs. Also, to loss prevention a***oles like ONLP, you do realize that shoplifters put food on your families table, right?- talk about a love/hate relationship. Eh?

Feb 7, 2008
6:36 am
#82 M1ONLP wrote:

Ok PJ…you are an idiot. That’s on your son or daughter to check their child’s clothing before putting them on her. Plain and simple, YES…most people do check out their clothing before wearing it and these magnetic strips are so obvious that it sounds like your granddaughter was dressed in clothing that was simply grabbed from Old Navy and not even looked at.

To the idiot who said he will sue if someone lays a hand on him. Give it a shot, you don’t have a friggen chance. If you run when you set off the sensor, then plain and simple the next time you are in the store…you’re gonna be watched like a hawk. And if we have caught you shoplifting, we DO have every right to detain you. I have no respect for these people and I look forward to busting…err…meeting you in the future. Seriously, come into my store, get caught stealing, and try to run…i’ll put the old “taking a basketball charge” move on you and you won’t be getting away with anything.

Feb 11, 2008
10:03 am
#83 old navy empl wrote:

I can’t believe this thread has gone on for over a year! WOW!

Anyway, yes, the tags should be deactivated at the register. Sometimes they do not, at our store if this happens and we rang the customer up then we don’t detain them. We send them on their way. But.. if someone was to walk through there and had not been rung up, then that get’s some attention.
I seriously doubt a magnetic tag will hurt you if you don’t see it. As a new cash handler, I’d be glad to cut any of your tags off for you! We aim to please! However, if you think that by ‘making’ me do it you are retaliating against the store, well I don’t think you’re making much of a difference. I like my job BECAUSE I like to help people.
As far as letting them know that the tag is there, if we point it out all the time people are going to get annoyed at hearing. Plus, if we tell everyone it’s there, what’s going to stop someone from bringing scissors with them and cutting it out in the fitting room?
If you are that concerned about the embarrassment, watch for the black boxes on the counter and make sure that your purchases get scanned across it.
I’ve also noted that Target seems to be the common thread here, maybe you should be griping about their security problems and find something else to gripe about Old Navy for.

Feb 14, 2008
5:50 pm
#84 Sam wrote:

Any time I purchase old navy clothing, I always see this tag, and the cashiers ask if they can remove it for me, and I always let them.

Feb 17, 2008
6:15 pm
#85 Geeshan Subasingha wrote:

I had many experiances like this. Within the last month I probaley set off over 20 alarms, the worst part is when you enter the store and set off the alarm, you know your going to set it off when you leave :(.

The first 15 times it happend to be a halls packet that was setting of the alarm, the other 5 times. It was my hollister T-shirt, apparently they also have hidden security tags πŸ™

Feb 22, 2008
6:59 pm
#86 oldnavyemployee wrote:

this is to everyone who seems astounded by the fact that gap, banana republic AND old navy all have these tags. News flash: they’re all owned by gap.inc. Basically they all have the same clothes with different target audiences…plus you pay more for some despite the fact that they’re probably all made in the same overseas factory. i love the smell of commerce in the morning…

Feb 22, 2008
9:38 pm
#87 Jay wrote:

Well, when any of you leave old navy or gap, and you beep on your way out, walk back in and let a casher know that you want your tags removed. they have scissors there and they will be happy to remove the tag that you could remove yourself.

Feb 24, 2008
10:27 pm
#88 Ashley wrote:

I work at Old Navy, and it is not my responsibility to cut the tag off. And I would refuse to do so. If you return it, and the tag’s cut off, guess what, we have no way to reattach one. They want you to cut it off before washing it, once you wash it, it’s not returnable. I also wear Old Navy clothes, and have never had a problem with the tag setting off other alarms. I haven’t removed any of the security tags, mostly because I forget, and have never had a problem, never. You, as a customer, never have to worry about buying something that has a little hole in it because of where a security tag went. Not everything is supposed to be done for you, retail employees are not your slaves. We are paid to help you when you need it, not take care of all your needs. Mainly what we are paid to do is pick up after the slobs that shop.

Feb 24, 2008
11:30 pm
#89 Kevin wrote:

I thought his blog was great, I just found the tags this morning after buying a new pair of jeans from Old Navy…seeing as it said remove before washing and wearing. I thought it was just either “this is made of 100% cotton, etc” or “do not eat this power stuff in here” kind of notes, so I removed it without knowing what it was.

This saved me a lot of embarrassment since I just went shopping at these sorts of stores.

In my opinion, I don’t think the employees should have an obligation to remove them for you, but If you ask them they shouldn’t give you a hard time about it, but I think it would be definetly fair to warn you about the tag inside at the register, since it is indeed hard to see and easily tossed aside as something else. If you’re paying for them at the cash register, you don’t seem like a person who’s going to steal, so it doesn’t do a whole lot of harm notifying you about the tags.

Anyways, thanks for the information.

Mar 4, 2008
11:39 pm
#90 dan the man wrote:

sadly a good shoplifter will never set off eas systems, so in reality those eas systems are there to remind me when a customer has something i forgot to demagnetize or detune for rfid, i’ve had maybe 3 instances out of countless 100s where it actually went off for a shoplifter and they ran, the other shoplifters rip the tags out or even smarter ones use faraday caged bags

Mar 6, 2008
2:16 am
#91 Kyle wrote:

Okay, I’m an Old Navy employee and let me just list a few things.

1)Whoever said the tags are small is lying. I suggest you take a trip back to the store to really look at the size of the tag.
2)If you want them to be cut at the line when you buy them then please, “STOP TELLING US THE WAIT IS TO LONG!” cutting them will defiantly make your wait time a lot less.
3)Most (I agree not all) are demagnetized when checking out.
4)It says “remove before washing” would you rather it say “please leave me for no reason what-so-ever”?
5)Most of the tags are easy to see/feel. The one that is probably most common I can probably put a very safe bet on jeans because of the thick materials making harder to notice. About 90% of the people posting here probably found them in there jeans because in most items it is a lot more noticeable.

Mar 10, 2008
1:52 am
#92 Jason wrote:

look im an employee at old navy, and i think you customers should be happy we have these tags instead of those big magnetic plastic things, because if someone forgets to take the plastic thing off your clothes you have to come back to get it removed, so consider the tag a favor.

Mar 12, 2008
3:43 am
#93 Aaron wrote:

I recently saw a ten year old boy accosted by security at Barnes and Noble for setting off a sensor. The manager was so rude to him. Thankfully a customer intervened and asked the boy if he was wearing (and I quote) “..Old Navy clothes..” The boy responded, “yes, I just got this pair of jeans today.” The customer said it probably has a tag sewn in that you must cut when you get home.

Mar 13, 2008
4:19 am
#94 Mary wrote:

I am an employee of Old Navy and we deactivate all tags before the items leave the store. (the deactivation pad is that black thing next to the register–try and notice the next time you shop.) If a tag does not deactivate the cashier should take it into their own hands to make sure it stops ringing. As for if you wash your jeans, it most likely will be ruined therefore not beep in other store. We make all of our tags clearly shown as for they are near they top of any pants on the side seams or on the zipper. In addition many of our “business” clothing, we have the security tags in the shirts which can be found at the bottom side seams. Also, as for having us remove the tags, we are not allowed because it is your merchandise and for issues of damaging the item, we will be very willing to give you scissors to cut out your own tag. Believe me when I say that it is a lot easier on us and on you to have these sewn in tags rather than the clothing-damaging plastic tags. Please do not cut them out in fitting rooms, and if you are concerned bring them to your closest Old Navy and we will be sure to deactivate any!
Thanks.

Mar 18, 2008
1:31 am
#95 ashley wrote:

seriously….
i work at old navy and they are hidden so that all the people who come in right before closing and throughout the day to STEAL dont see them and its harder for them to steal…..it says to remove before washing and wearing because whn you run it through the washer and dryer the thing reactivates makeing you beep as you enter a store . haha i have forgotten to cut out mine a few times…and yeah to agree with someone above…when you got a line of about 10 people and your the only one or one of two people on a register we cant cut out every single tag. and besides we arnt suppose to unless it wont deactivate over our scanners. so just DEAL with the little tag and learn to cut the damn thing out.

oh and its not even really hidden. its in plain sight as you go to put the jeans on so its not like you wouldnt have seen it….they do that on purpose for dumb people.

Mar 18, 2008
7:42 pm
#96 Aaron wrote:

dumb people^

i just stole a pair with it in it. if you just walk out like you own the place nobody will stop you, i used to work retail and alarms go off all the time for all the wrong reasons.

Mar 19, 2008
3:22 am
#97 Laura wrote:

I also work at an Old Navy, I am not going to spit out the same few things the other ON employees are telling you (even if they are true) but I am going to add one thing.

Most Gap INC LP agents are VERY INSISTENT that the employees not remove this tag in the store. The reason is that every loose magnetized tag that is found on the floor, or in the trash, has to be recorded (date found, where found, time found, who found) and given to the LP agents to be accounted for. This costs a lot of manhours, due to the fact that all trash has to be opened and checked before it goes out the door, and then when your store has this HUGE number of garments missing with the tags still present, corporate has to budget more LP hours. You can see where I am going with this- eventually the cost will come down to you. Take a look at some of the high theft items at ON, and do the math in your head- prices have gone up CONSIDERABLY in these product categories, due to theft (real OR perceived!).

The point is that we as customers need to do a better job of reading things. I have never found these tags hard to find, even when I didn’t work for the company. It is not a “search.” The tag is not even that well hidden. As a matter of fact, my co workers and I make it a point to expose the tag as we run it across the de-magnetizer in hopes that you will NOTICE it is there!

Mar 19, 2008
11:02 pm
#98 Brendan wrote:

I happen to know a bit about loss prevention and the tags that Old Navy uses are RF (Radio Frequency) and can NOT be reactivated (the tags are basically little electronic antennas and the deactivators for them shoot a super-strong beam at the tag which “burns it out” so it does not emit a frequency.) Therefore the tags CANNOT be reactivated at all, especially by something as simple as heat from a dryer.

Old Navy should try using the plastic hard tags instead since they’re meant to be REMOVED (not deactivated but still physically present) at the checkout and it would save them $$ because the tags can be reused instead paying for all those disposable tags that are useless once deactivated.

Mar 21, 2008
6:21 pm
#99 Michael wrote:

Hey everyone. I’ve worked at Old Navy for about two years now. Those tags deactivate but we just assume that you can see it when you put the pants on because it is right there next to the zipper. Plus we are not the only store to cause this problem. The tags will usually get deactivated at the Point of sale but cutting them out takes time and our scissors are not the best so when you’re in a big line we don’t have time to cut out every tag you may have. So stop complaining find the tag and cut it out yourself.

Apr 7, 2008
7:45 am
#100 Alan wrote:

Hi, I’ve just started working for Old Navy and I’ve had this problem before, but there is an easy and simple solution, always assume that there is a tag inside every pair of pants, jeans and even shirts, I now make a point of going through all my purchases to see if there’s a tag. Also if the tag is in a pair of khakis or jeans you don’t need scissors, pinch the seam of the garment with one hand the hold the tag with the other and quickly and firmly pull the tag in a ripping motion towards you, it should come out in one pull. BTW for anyone seeing this an in on theft. The reason fitting room attendants will take the items you want to try on into to room for you, is so that they can see what you’ve got and make a count so that you don’t put on a jacket and pretend it’s yours or put on a pair of pants under the pants you wore in. Happy Shopping

Apr 7, 2008
7:47 am
#101 Alan wrote:

Oh and in addition, the Gap and Banana Republic use the same tags. It’s also safe to assume that if a store doesn’t use those giant blocks of ink filled plastic that they will certainly be using sewn-in tags.

Apr 7, 2008
4:42 pm
#102 brianne wrote:

you idiots. clearly its hidden so people don’t cut it out to steal the item. it gets deactivated when you purchase the item but when you put it in the dryer it activates again. so now we all know its there so just cut the damn thing out.

Apr 7, 2008
10:34 pm
#103 Savvy wrote:

I can see the employees of said operations such as Gap, and Old Navy, are putting up a pretty good fight. Usually when someone gets so livid over s tupid little blog comment or article written by nobody in particular, it means they themselves are taking it personally, more than likely, have been punished for an act related to the issue at hand, such as, not properly deactivating a tag.

I’ve left an Old Navy establishment THREE times without deactivation. ‘
One time is unacceptable, two times, means to sue if exposed to enough harrassment. But three times? Now it gets personal. Now I have to sit back and say, “Old Navy employees are lazy fuckers.”
Maybe they put up such a fight because they personally have not been harrassed by several stores in one day, maybe they’ve never been asked to take off their shoes and socks, and jacket, maybe they’ve never been man handled by one of those security rods they wave all over your body to locate the source.

No, I assume not. But I, and many other people have.
And yes, you twits, the device IS hidden, you say yourself it would be pointless to have them in plain sight. They’re hidden, after being waved with the security wand at Barns and Nobel, I finally located the tag from the second incident. and I’ve found that the hidden security tag is in a different location, every, freaking, time. The last incident and glad to say, last time I’ll ever visit any Gap branch, was this last christmas, I bought a long black skirt. I spent 20 minutes waiting in line, practically tearing the skirt apart looking for the sensor. I had to seriously beg the cashier to run the product over the deactivation strip. She threw it in the bag without inspecting it, without deactivating it, so I ask her politely to do so, and then briefly explained to her what had happened several times. She replied with a…” Oh, their aren’t any Sd’s in these skirts…” I insisted anyway, she sighed impatiently, and waved the skirt over the pad. What happens when I’m walking through the sensors? BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP.

I was practically tackled by two young male employees who asked very nicely to search my bag, I looked at the employee who ‘helped’ me with complete and utter disdain. One of the young men ask to see a receipt, and the girl who helped me, from across the room yells,”she bought those ones, I swiped them(meaning ‘deactivated them).”Almost as if she was implying I had stolen something, because she definately deactivated the skirt. Well, they ask me to walk through, no beep. They swing the bag with the skirt through the sensors, it beeps.

That lazy bitch who half assed the deactivation was one of MANY lazy stuck up bitches employed at Gap branches.

THREE times…
What’s worse, is that the Gap industry refuses to explain what will happen to you if you do actually wear the tag. Creepy? I think so.
Brenden is right. The old ugly plastic sensors are more cost effective, and are mor elikely to be SEEN and removed than the hidden tags.

Oh, in case you were wondering, the tag on the black skirt, was hidden between the two layers of the skirt, and connected to the seam.

I returned it.

Apr 12, 2008
2:22 am
#104 Victoria wrote:

This is so stupid. Many companies use either adhesive or sewn in tags. Have you ever noticed when purchasing items that it is scanned across a big, black, square on the counter? Urban OUtfitters and Anthropologie either have them sewn or stuck in a pocket also. When you hear the buzzer go off, go back and have them remove it. It really is not a big deal to retail employees to remove it for you. What is a bigger deal is idiotic consumers complaining about trivial issues like this. If you allow yourself to be “searched” at Target or the like, you are allowing your own rights to be violated. Your bag of purchased merchandise and receipt are all that is needed to suffice any security company policy. Take the responsibility as a consumer to know what you are buying and move on. If you are on your cell while checking out, you deserve the inconvience.

Apr 14, 2008
3:39 am
#105 Kagome wrote:

I am also an Old Navy employee, and we have had a few incidences where, yes, the door alarm is set off, but it’s no big deal, you’re not reprimanded or anything, you don’t even have to remove your things and walk through again. At our Old Navy, there’s scissors available for us to cut out the security tags, but we have to advise you that after that tag is cut out, you cannot return that item. We have no way of reattaching those tags. I guess I understand how it could be ’embarrassing’ to be accused of shoplifting at another store when you forgot to cut the tags out, but if you just cut it out like it says, it’s no big deal. It’s really a convience to the cashiers and customers to have those tags instead of bulky plastic ones. And as someone mentioned before, they’re pretty ichy and large, it’s kind of hard to miss them and forget to cut them out.

Apr 23, 2008
6:27 am
#106 johnny wrote:

wowwwwww way to be. CUT IT OUT WHEN YOU GET HOME cmon whats so hard about that please. i’m 10 and i can do that wow.

May 15, 2008
1:03 pm
#107 LG wrote:

Customers should not be informed of these tags. Day after day, these tags are found in the floor of the dressing rooms, because people would rather steal then be honest. As an employee of old navy, I am effected by people knowing of these tags… Less sales means less work hours.

These tags are deactivated at the time of purchase. If you walk out the door and the alarm sounds, don’t be a dick and just walk out, let the employee deactivate the tag!

NO department stores have a right to search you. They are not the police! And 9 times out of 10 we will not call the police because if we wrongly accuse you that’s a possible lawsuit.

So take some time and cut out your own damn tags, and learn to inspect your clothes befor you wear them; holes or loose threads. And for you nimrods that don’t like to try on clothes, Old Navy doesn’t do RETURNS or EXCHANGES without a reciet!

Enjoy the new summer clothes at old navy.and be sure to remove your tags.

Jun 18, 2008
11:56 am
#108 Lindsey wrote:

I work at an old navy and the tag is there so people dont steal the damn jeans when you buy them the tag is supposed to desensitize with the magnets at the register if it dosnt you beep when you wlk out the door when you leave people who pay attention walk back in and i let them know that theres a tag on the inside and to just cut it out other people just decide to walk out and i let those people discover the tag on their own if they dont mind beeping once then i guess they dont care if they beeep again

Jun 30, 2008
9:13 am
#109 mjwnes12 wrote:

I work at Old Navy and have worked in other retail stores as well, and I can assure all of you whiners ad complainers (Lazy people out there) that these tags are in many articles of clothing from many different clothing companies to keep theft down…..they are pretty noticeable if you look past your nose and if we were to say “Oh by the way, we have security tags that you can cut out to keep from setting off the alarm” then we would have so much theft and loss from that….they are supposed to be found easily without being noticeable, and I am sick and tired of this being a Gap Inc problem exclusively,…..many clothing companies so this to deter theft and guess what idiots….IT WORKS!

Jun 30, 2008
9:16 am
#110 mjwnes12 wrote:

Oh and by the way, employees at other stores have no right in detaining you, BUT SECURITY DOES WHETHER IT BE AT A MALL OR ELSWHERE AS LONG AS THEY HAVE THAT AUTHORIZATION!!!! people dont understand the problem with retail theft….WOW people are such complainers and lazy a**es

Jul 5, 2008
7:58 pm
#111 elly wrote:

the only reason i am replying to any of this is to tell people who have been employees at stores that uses this security device to CHILL OUT. i understand that you feel you you should not have to remove the tags at checkout. i understand their purpose…. everyone who has complained about them understand that.

the complaint was that we, the consumer, were not aware of this technology to even look for the tag to remove. i wore a pair of khakis several times until i finally discovered it…. and no, i didn’t feel it… and that doesn’t make me an “idiot” as some of you say. once i remove the tag everything was fine. i now look for them after buying clothes.

but there is no point in calling people stupid or lazy and saying to use “common sense” to remove them. since this is a newer technology in recent years, how are we to use “common sense” to remove them if we had no knowledge of them being there and did not notice after purchasing? i am sure most people now look for it once they have had to deal with it once, but if they had no prior knowledge they are not “stupid.”

bottom line, all customers are asking is for the cashiers to be trained properly enough to inform the customer at purchase, and perhaps put some sort of disclaimer on the receipt about it. that way the customer has been told if they had not been presented with this before and can not have a reason to complain about it since you told them.

Aug 3, 2008
5:49 am
#112 PrupeReere wrote:

Thanks for the post

Aug 8, 2008
12:34 am
#113 SUsi wrote:

I think there are these hidden electronic devices in Kohl’s clothing as well. In the dressing room there are signs that say there are concealed electronic tags in the clothing to prevent high priced clothing due to shoplifting, although I looked and could not find any. Has anyone seen this type of thing in Kohl’s clothing?

Aug 9, 2008
12:11 pm
#114 Richard wrote:

Look, I am an Old Navy Loss Prevention Agent. Let me explain first of all i am very sorry that you had this experience, but instead of being upset with old navy be upset at the store that repeatedly required you to walk back and forth through the EAS system. Thats just terrible customer service on there part

As for you stating old navy should put something on the clothes stating “hidden security device in clothes,” wouldn’t that completely defeat the purpose of the tags?

The tags serve a purpose/ benefit for YOU the consumer. Have you ever wondered why you can get such high quality jeans at old navy for such an excellent price $29.50, it is because of things like the tag, see it assists us in reducing shrink thus keeping the ices LOW, hey if you want we will take the tags off, which then WILL cause more theft thus raising the price of the jeans and other clothes, all because we cant check our pants for security tags once we get them home!!

Aug 9, 2008
12:18 pm
#115 Richard wrote:

also so you all know, the tags are on a magnetic frequency and WILL eventually re activate if you do not remove them from the clothing after purchase,

Aug 15, 2008
2:25 am
#116 mom24 wrote:

Ok – this has been going on a long, long time. I’ve worked at Old Navy for 4 years and we started these tags a few years ago to help deter theft. As a mom of four, I checked all their clothes when I purchased them, especially when they were infants. I can’t imagine a mom putting clothing on a small child without inspecting it first. Most tags are itchy and I would cut them out – and this was a long time before security tags were needed or sewn into clothes. People are just getting more and more lazy. Holister, American Eagle, and Abercrombie also have small security tags which should be cut before wearing. And these tags do not even have a picture of a scissors or a cut line – so some of the people here would really have a hard time figuring out what to do with these tags! Lastly, if you forget to cut these tags out they will reactivate in the dryer, and they will not harm you, maybe some small skin irritation, but you should be fine. Take care consumers and shop safe!

Aug 16, 2008
2:28 am
#117 Renee wrote:

Yeah, that same thing happend to me, in old navy, they have those all the time! But i think that they should warn people about that type of security device, being that it is so unnoticable. I personally don’t think that this post was something for the Old Navy staff to get upset about, because of the fact that, you are NOT bashing their security methods you are simply giving them ideas as to improve maybe on that small, yet mundane thing.

Aug 18, 2008
12:14 am
#118 Ryan wrote:

This is one LOONG thread.

Anyways I bought some jeans for my little brother cause he’s always going out in workout pants which looks kind of tacky (-.-). And the device didn’t go off which is great. Actually i noticed them right when i bought them it was almost right next to the pocket (on the inside of the pants) I can’t believe you are complaining about them. Although it would be nice if they would tell you or put a sign somewhere in the store.

Kind of weird that they would put those in kid pants… Not many kids would know how to steal anyway.

And Mom24 all the Hollister/American Eagle/Abercrombie clothes had just the usual tags that they stick onto the collar or w/e.

Aug 19, 2008
1:47 am
#119 Retail Hxll wrote:

ReeRee. You’re blaming a clothing seller for your negligence in caring for your child. If you can find the time to post on this thread, then you can take the extra moment to inspect clothing before dressing your toddler. You must really love being a victim.

And Ryan, some kids do steal. But remember it is often adults who shop for children’s clothing, of course. And A LOT of adults steal.

If you want a lesson in just how base humanity can be, work a retail job for a month.

The good news is that we all have the power to make a difference. Hold yourself and those around you accountable for their actions.

Be outraged that a sewn-in security tag is in a seam of the jean you just bought? Absurd.

Aug 21, 2008
5:13 pm
#120 Lise wrote:

The tags in Old Navy seen to be pretty easy to spot and I do cut them out but I was out the other day shopping with my kids I walked into AE and their security alarm was ringing off and on it was obivious they had a issue with the alarm . I rang on the way out with my kids a was stopped outside the store the person wanted to look inside my bag from Pac Sun and also asked for my reciept from pac sun and I said no they could not do look in my bag or have my reciept from another store but I would gladly check myself.

After checking one bag then handing it off to my son to hold and checking the other I did not find anything left on the clothes and procedded to get up off of the floor outside of the store as I did this the alarm went off again as two other women left. I turned around to see my son looking in his bag and the store employee had then grabed one side of the handle to take a look in I grabbed the bag from her hands and told her I had said no. She also went on to spout store policy of checking people as they ring. I then got very loud so everyone could hear and told this young lady that if she thought she saw me steal something to call security.
I can not help it if their store has a issue with their security alarm going off.
I then said it is my right to refuse to be searched or have to show a reciept.
That is my protection under the law unless they have resonable cause. Alarms going off all the time that is not resonable cause.The Store should train their employees to ask but no touch after someone declines. I find it so funny that the alarm was going off as she stood there as others walked out it was not us setting it off. Um yea they wont’ be getting my business there are many places to vote with my pocket book.
I find it interesting that as I left pac sun no alarms went off. Bottom line if it is not a big deal to you then let someone look in your bag but if you feel like saying no you have that right too. Anyone on this thread saying they would detain you or tackle you better have seen you steal something because they not the store can be sued they should know the laws before taking it into their own hands and trust me the store will not back you up but they will fire you.

I refuse all stores based on my experience of buying earrings at Wal Mart for my daughter and having the alarm go off I gladly showed my reciept and my purchase to the person at the door only to have her hold it over the alarm and it rang again the security tag did not get deactvated for what ever reason. The person then wanted me to go with her to the jewlry department in the back of the store to confirm I had indeed bought the earrings. I was so angry that I cooperated with this person only to be told I needed to go to the back of the store to clear it up! I then took the earrings off of the thing that they were on that held that security tag device handed it to the lady and told her I had proven they were indeed bought and that if she wanted to waste her time she could take the sensor back herself.
I then walked out. Wal Mart and other stores are notorious for harrassing customers. I recently said no when asked to hand over my reciept again at Wal Mart the guy actually yelled out “what did you say” I then loudly said no again unless a customer has signed a contract with a store like at Cost Co a customer can refuse to show a reciept or have their bags checked. I only wish more people would not hand over their civil rights so easily to the store monkeys.

Sep 4, 2008
8:20 pm
#121 Han wrote:

This is to Susie:
DUH!! It didn’t go off at Old Navy because when you purchase the clothes, they are run over a deactivation plate so they won’t set the alarm off. If everytime someone walked out the door and beeped, the security tags would be pointless. The reason they go off in other stores is because when the item is washed and the tag has not been cut out, it is reactivated.

And as for people getting mad over them being in there in the first place, get over it… would you want to work somewhere just to have shoplifters effect your raise? I didn’t think so.

Sep 6, 2008
8:41 pm
#122 Jessica wrote:

Okay, so I know this is old, however I’m an old navy employee and I thought that i’d point this out

yes, are tags are annoying. also makes it easy for assholes to steal. whatev.

if you don’t remove the tag before you wash it, laundry detergent re-activates our alarms. Thus, you set of every alarm between you, and whever you want to be.

Just letting you know =)

Oct 14, 2008
6:48 am
#123 shaka wrote:

HAHA I always notice those tags. I don’t understand how they think they’re a deterrent to shoplifters because if you’re a shoplifter, you know to look for those things, right? First of all, the tag is supposed to be deactivated at the register. But since most Old Navy employees are still in high school, their mind is not on that. Cut the damn thing out yourself.

Oct 30, 2008
1:50 am
#124 Neeraj wrote:

I have setoff the alarms more then 7 times now…..Last time I visited a shop with my family and the alarm started beeping…and I was like what the hell…..I removed my belt and scanned everything one by one and the result was the same……and then I realized that either its my shoes or its my jeans…and finally I did google on the same and came across this life saving note on the crappy old navy tags….This is not at all acceptable and the sales person should remove these tags or let us know about the magnetic strips…

To be very honest…I am feeing so happy and confident now because turning on the alarm is so embarrassing…

Oct 31, 2008
2:45 am
#125 Michael wrote:

A simple answer would be for old navy to have signs letting customers know about the extra tags by the purchase counter or somewhere noticeable. This would make it easier for shoplifters also but at the price of loosing customers I think its worth it. While it is not there responsibility to cut it out for the customer, the customer should not be inconvenienced by the alarm going off when they did nothing wrong. If the customer is unhappy and could consider shopping elsewhere when they need cloths, then thats a problem that old navy should deal with. Oh, and Kurt… you seem like a very arrogant individual but what you posted made me smile. πŸ˜€

Nov 13, 2008
10:36 am
#126 Mia Ilizilaturi wrote:

yall are all really lazy its not that hard to rip out a tag, i mean come on.
Shaka is absolutly right, CUT THE DAM THING OUT YOURSELF.
oh and they are deactavated at the register once placed on top of the black pad, but after they have been washed alot of peoples dryers reactavate them.

Nov 21, 2008
10:53 am
#127 Natalie wrote:

I definetly have a security tag on my Citizens of Humanity jeans somewhere, so it sets off the alarm at some stores each time I wear them. I carefully examined the jeans but haven’t found anything looking like a security tag, only a size tag and care instructions, could this be it?

Nov 22, 2008
12:39 am
#128 Arthur wrote:

@Natalie: If the tag feels a bit stiff there may be a chip inside.

Nov 29, 2008
10:54 pm
#129 Hubenka wrote:

I normally don’t shop on Black Friday but I needed a coat and I was in a city about 1.5 hours away from my home. I went to the mall and found a coat at JCPenney. I paid (with plastic) and the clerk wrapped by coat up in a bag. When returned home (very late in the evening), I noticed that big butt ugly security tab on my coat! It’s cold here and I had planned to wear it but how can I now with that thing hanging on it? I have my receipt so hopefully the store 25 miles away from me will take the thing off. To all clerks everywhere: I don’t care if you don’t smile, say hello, etc. but please, remember to take those damn things off after people purchase an item in your store. They can cause a lot of grief for us honest people.

Dec 7, 2008
3:15 am
#130 mjwnes12 wrote:

I have published my thoughts in this page before, but I will take everyone inside what an Old Navy store goes through on a daily basis. Out of all three Gap inc, Stores (ON, Gap, Banana Republic), 80% of yearly theft occurs at Old Navy due to the accessibility to steal items, and guess what, the cowardly thieves who steal know where these tags are. SO my point is, if people know where to find them to cut them out, they obviously are not that hard to see. When you work in retail you see the dark sides of human beings. So a message to all customers, we do not have an easy job, and we try to make it the best experience for you, but if you take everything out on an employee, then don’t expect the best experience. We go through a lot to work for you, and we strive to help you as much as we can. If you want prices to remain low, then I suggest people take the time to turn your cloths inside out and see that 2-3 inches from the top or bottom of your clothes (bottom for shirts and top for jeans) a tag that says “cut before washing or wearing” is easily visible and easily removable. These tags usually contrast with the color of your clothes so that will help.

P.S. To the past writer who stated that ON employees are mostly in high school and unintelligent, most of the employees are smart, hard working, college students, so show some respect for people trying to make a living and balance their studies.

Dec 14, 2008
12:20 pm
#131 Katie wrote:

As an employee of Old Navy, I am ashamed to read these comments. I apologize for the words of my co-workers on this website. Although the issues with these tags can be very frustrating, no one should be belittled or cursed at over it.

It is true that the tags can be a nuisance to customers. Producers of the products which contain these tags have tried to make them obvious and easy to find, but not so easy to find that thieves will know about them. Employees are supposed to demagnetize these tags on the black pads which other employees have mentioned, but sometimes it is difficult to do so. If the fabric is too thick, it is sometimes difficult to demagnetize it because the sensor cannot be reached. The same thing happens with large purchases; sometimes the employee will attempt to stack several items on the black pad and the one on top may not be reached. Unfortunately many situations arise where customers beep, but they are usually waved out of the store and reminded to cut out tags.

I am sorry for the inconvenience and will personally try harder to keep these nuisances from detracting from the shopping experiences of Old Navy’s customers. This may not come to a full conclusion within all of the stores in our chain, but hopefully the problem can be contained.

In response to those who commented on the laziness of employees, I don’t think that those points were valid or justified. It is possible that some employees are slightly lazy, but I have never observed an employee who opted not to demagnetize a tag for malicious purposes. Usually it is a mistake that goes unnoticed until the customer exits the store, and is unintentional.

Also, I would like to respond to those who stated that emotional trauma was caused by the tags. This is exactly why there are so many regulations in this country: there is an abundance of people suing companies for unimportant trifles such as this. When someone sues for falling off of the Grand Canyon, a fence may be placed on the cliff’s edge. It is the same with this matter: the more you sue, the less you can do without breaking rules. Please be careful in what you sue or “write nasty letters” about. This will affect the future much more that supposed spying (the idea that the tags with sensors is the next step toward a world where everything is monitored with microchips).

Lastly, it shames me to see that fellow Americans cannot spell or use appropriate manners online. This may be an anonymous post, but that does not mean that grammar and spelling does not apply. Any argument loses its strength when the person writing it cannot even handle the mechanics of the English language.

Dec 26, 2008
2:09 pm
#132 Courtney wrote:

I’m so glad you wrote this article. I had this annoying issue today. I went to an Old Navy in a mall, and purchased two shirts. I go into two stores and the alarm goes off. I was so embarassed. My purse was checked like I was a common criminal. Finally someone in the second store informed me Old navy hides their security tags. It would be nice if the sales associates would say something, or if they had a sign up. They really need to get plastic tags.

Jan 9, 2009
5:38 am
#133 Matt wrote:

THANK YOU!

Damn new jeans beeping all the time and having to be constantly checked at TARGET, CVS etc. And the thing is I didn’t beep leaving the OLD NAVY story when I bought them!!

Very annoying, but thanks again.

Jan 14, 2009
7:11 pm
#134 Skye wrote:

I honestly got too sick of reading these responses about 2/3 of the way down, so I’m not sure if anyone has made my point yet… but the employees really do make an effort to make sure the tags are deactivated. Unfortunately there is no beeping noise or anything that lets us know when it has deactivated, so sometimes an item is put in your bag without being deactivated. Our black de-magnetizer pads are fairly obvious on the counter, and if your bag sets the alarm off and you are concerned, just return to the counter and have an employee swipe your purchase bag over the pad a couple times and you should be all set. I am disappointed to hear so many people say things about employees not caring. I at least know that I always make my best effort because I would prefer to deactivate everything and feel good about someone walking out having made a purchase and not setting off the alarm than having people who just checked out set it off, leaving me wondering if it was just something they bought or if they had stolen. And at least as of late, all of the pants tags are RIGHT by the zipper, so I feel like they are very noticeable. There is a chance that the particular style of pant you bought may have had a stronger seam to attach the tag to elsewhere (I imagine you would be upset if you ripped the seam while taking the tag off!). In shirts, they are generally on the side, so as not to be confused with the regular tag. And these security tags are rather thick, so I would be surprised if people did not notice them after a minute or so.

On behalf of ON I am sorry for all the frustration that has been displayed back and forth about this issue, but please be patient with our LP efforts. Thanks!

Jan 16, 2009
12:23 am
#135 Sarah wrote:

I bought a couple of pairs of ON jeans for the first time a couple of weeks ago, and I’ve been setting off just one store’s security alarm (CVS) every single time I go in. It’s been a nightmare, and I’ve been looking through everything I’m carrying every time I get home, and only found this tag today. Thanks for explaining.

Feb 17, 2009
2:30 pm
#136 Otto wrote:

I didn’t buy Old Navy’s, some other brand (Trail), but also with sewn in rfid tags. Bought it in Holland. Luckily I didn’t have alarms go off, I noticed after a few days there was something in the leg, something itchy. After that it took me over 15 minutes to check and remove all the tags in my new bought pants. And just cutting wasn’t an option, for it was in the leg, so it would still itch.

What happend to the big ol’ plastic alarm thingy?

Mar 23, 2009
9:07 pm
#137 john Doe wrote:

I think MOST people who have buying clothing somewhat regularly know about the tags to be honest. Another thing most people are avoiding mention, and those of you who work for the chains know this all too well. PEOPLE DON’T REMOVE THE TAG BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY CAN’T RETURN TO ITEM AFTER DOING SO. It’s a double edged sword for the retailer and the customer, because both can benefit from either action. Remove it and your return will be refused, keep it and you might sound off alarms here and there. I think that’s the honest truth, also people love to play the victim, and plead ignorance, also maybe I can sue, ect. American spoiled brat syndrome I like to call it, as I’ve noticed since I’ve been living here. Americans love to complain, and find fault with just about everything, in the mean time a soldier just died, or a child somewhere died of starvation, ect. So stop crying over a pair of OLD NAVY jeans, ect…

Mar 23, 2009
9:18 pm
#138 john Doe wrote:

The last point that I’d like to make is that most people who know how to wash clothing properly, turn them inside out. This would be where you would see the -REMOVE BEFORE WASHING. I’ve also noticed the tag when buying an item, I find it hard to believe folks are missing this detail.

Apr 4, 2009
4:17 pm
#139 jo wrote:

I have to admit this happened to my 8 year old Daughter. My husband went to old navy and bought 2 pairs of jeans. a couple days later I was at the grocery store and the alarm went off then my husband told me that Kaitlyn kept sounding off securtiy alarms, so we looked at her jeans and sure enough she had a security alarm inside her jeans. the poor kid was so embarased. thanks for putting this post up so I knew what the security tag looks like so I could remove it.

May 16, 2009
12:19 pm
#140 KF wrote:

To Carla about ReeRee
It’s very possible that the cholrine (or sometimes silver ions) that the pool uses to disinfect would have a reaction with the tag.

That being stated, I think it would be wise for everyone who buys things from stores known to have the “REMOVE BEFORE WASHING OR WEARING” tags to just be quiet and cut the tags off or rip them out.

May 21, 2009
10:42 am
#141 vanesha wrote:

i to just found the tag , ive been setting off alarms for da longest , i got tired of it people look at me like i stole something , i actually got in an argument b/c some lady was lookin at me when i came in ride aid cause the alarm wet off im so pissed

May 26, 2009
6:59 pm
#142 kristin wrote:

Thank you, I appreciate this article so much. I just found a security tag in a pair of my baby’s shorts and it was completely hidden in between two other, larger tags – I keep the tags on most clothes because they have the washing instructions and size on them. I am not an idiot or stupid in any way, it was just completely invisible in between the two tags.

And the idea that kids from the ages of 8-16 who are old enough to take care of their own clothes, are going to have any understanding that they need to look for secret, hidden tags and cut them out themselves, is silly and ridiculous. I don’t look in my 14 year old’s pants, he takes care of his shopping and laundry himself but searching for and cutting out the tags would never cross his mind unless they were itchy. Yet those are the kids who are going to be the most victimized by false accusations of shoplifting.

Jun 4, 2009
1:49 am
#143 Lindsey wrote:

I think it’s outrageous that Old Navy sews these sensor into jeans. I bought my first pair of ON jeans a month ago and I set off the alarm at 4 different stores. Luckily, no one made a big deal about it. But, it’s a terrible feeling when you have errands to run and lots of stores to go to and you realize that you’re going to set off the alarm system everytime you walk through the door and you have no idea why it’s happening. ON should be sued for the embarrassement it has caused so many customers.

Jun 16, 2009
12:29 am
#144 The Mayor wrote:

You can blame the cashier if you set off sensor at other stores. Under every Old Navy counter next to the register is a pad that is supposed to deactivate these sensors. So if you set off other stores it could be that the cashier didn’t pass your clothing over the pad or the other company has their detector sensitivity turned up to high.
But everyone that is pissed about this can rest easy as Old Navy is now switching to the hard tags for more expensive clothing like jeans and pants and jackets. They are the ones that cashiers must take off because customers can’t do it at home without damaging the garment. This is being implemented currently and should be in full effect by end of summer.

Jul 12, 2009
8:23 am
#145 Alex wrote:

I’m an Old Navy employee, and I think that a few things need to be said here:

1. If you an employee of an Old Navy store, please be respectful. You are speaking to our customers, and even though you are online, any negative experiences here will directly influence how many of these people will be willing to walk back through our doors. Remember that in anything you do regardless of when or where, if you identify yourself as an Old Navy employee, you are representing your company.

2. I think that the issue here is not that the tags are not getting deactivated at the register, but that they are getting RE activated at home. The tag says to remove before washing because it is possible for the tags to be deactivated at the store, and then placed in a dryer, and reactivated. Something about the heat recharges the chip in the tag.

3. The company is currently in the process of transitioning to “Hard Tags” the ones which everybody seems to be familiar with. My store is one of the pilot stores for the hard tag program, and it is really nice. The cloth tags are soon on there way out.

I hope that this clears the air about some things!

Aug 25, 2009
7:58 pm
#146 Christina Barefoot wrote:

DANGER TAG My 1 1/2 year old son has been being seen for a burn/rash that he has woken up in pain with for 8 weeks. guess what it was the tag inside his old navy bathing suit. he would wear it every other week at day care, the opposite week the rash was getting better then the week he wore it the red burn and rash came back. I had no Idea until the end of this summer when I went to wash the suite and it happened to be turned inside out with a warning remove this tag sign. Well the tag is directly in the spot of my childs burn. This has awoken him in his sleep many nights and he would rub his leg. Even to touch his leg during the day my 1 1/2 year old says ouch boo boo! get real poeple get rid of the tags. my son is scarred and suffered severe pain. I don’t care who steels your stuff. safety comes first.

Oct 21, 2009
2:59 pm
#147 carlos wrote:

hahaha old navy sucks dick. Haven’t shopped there in years and this is one reason why.

HORRIBLE CUSTOMER SERVICE and just plain bad clothes.

Only time I’d ever go there again is to steal their stuff. lol

Nov 14, 2009
9:22 pm
#148 Jeff wrote:

Ah, it’s good to know that I’m not the only one setting off alarms. I set off alarms at Barnes & Noble multiple times and surprisingly, no one stopped me. I think people just ignore the alarms.

Dec 13, 2009
10:16 pm
#149 shoplifter wrote:

these tags are a shoplifters best friend. Why? Well if you have any clue you know what they are, and can EASILY be cut off, unlike the plastic things most stores use that are very hard to take off. All one needs is a knife or scissors and go to change room and WALA!

Dec 22, 2009
1:10 pm
#150 heather wrote:

i just wrote to old navy my child has had this rash/ burn for 4 weeks and counting and this is only after one day of use with the tag still on. this was the first time i ever shopped at old navy so i had no clue about this tag. Write old navy and complain . This is not about the cashiers this is about the company and the company should be the one who knows and gets complains about it. The company should be the one who changes it’s policy and tells it’s cashiers to inform people when paying for the clothes.
As for the cashiers or workers of old navy I do understand you are just doing your job please do not take what people are saying to heart. they are not taking about you personally! And i am sure that if they told you at training to tell people about the tags when paying for items you would do so.

I work at a daycare and often get complains about what we do but that is what we are trained to do. I tell them to go to the owner and complain. I am upset that old navy employees would call people dumb or lazy. When the nice and right this to do is give them the number or email to the companys’ customer service who are the people who handle the problems and i am sure that if all the people would go directly to the company and not its employees to complain something would be done about it.
kind like the carters tagless childrens clothes that casuse a rash! people complained to the right people and something was done about it and then parents were given the information.
you can find old navys customer service number on its website

Jan 28, 2010
7:59 am
#151 Sari wrote:

I have jeans from Old Navy. But I never take the tags off. Didn’t set off any alarm. I also have purse with that tag but I didn’t have that tagsoff also. I like to keep my stuff mint. I wonder why it haven’t set off alarms?

Apr 6, 2010
11:37 pm
#152 Patrick wrote:

I work at old navy and the towers go off ALL the time. Dont be embarrassed if the alarm goes off, it is usually employee error. Those security tags are almost always desensitised at check out, if not when you walk through security towers they sould not set off the alarm again. So im confused on how the jeans were making alarms go off after 8 weeks of you wearing them.

Apr 28, 2010
11:50 am
#153 Baxter wrote:

the whole thing’s a government conspiracy, dammit. the only reason theyre so hard to find is so you DONT remove them and THEY CAN FREAKING FIND YOU. or something. whatever…

Jul 25, 2010
2:04 pm
#154 kiki wrote:

Yes, that happend to me today and the lady asked if i was wearing gap or old navy clothing.. so when i got home i looked throughout my shorts and so i opened the tag and it looked like metal inside.

Jul 30, 2010
10:59 pm
#155 Lokeesha wrote:

In response to post #153 – if you paid cash for them and they do decide to track you – how would the gov’t distinguish you from someone else? It was a cash transaction. Yes they can track the jeans but they have no idea who bought them/is wearing them.

Jul 31, 2010
12:58 am
#156 AlexanderFreeman wrote:

Hey if anyone’s still reading this— do they still do that at Old Navy? I stole something twice and both times there were no alarms, but the second time loss prevention stopped me so I ran.. Do the alarms have a sound or is it in the back?? I looked at the shirt I actually bought that day and I couldn’t find a “REMOVE” anything on it. I stole three other shirts pretty much just like it too… Anyone know?

Sep 22, 2010
11:24 am
#157 Dan wrote:

Wow. I never check jeans or clothing when I get home for a hidden unknown security devices. I removed outside tags and stickers I can see. I must be one of those stupid people mentioned. Im an aerospace engineer; your an old navy employee. Im the stupid one for not knowing about hidden tags.

Heh.

Feb 8, 2011
1:20 am
#158 shado wrote:

I work at Old Navy and u do not know how many people come there and steal. We had three women who came in and filled three of our shopping bags full of clothes and walked out recently. That’s like over 1500 dollars worth of clothes. this happens about 2-3 times a week. and it’s old navy policy not to chase after the theives. Now this is probably the reason why they stopped u. But i’m not accusing you of stealing and the old navy you went to shouldn’t have treated u that way. In our store if it’s not obvious that you stole we just let you go. our policy is to treat our customers like any other person would like to be treated. but like everything else not all stores are the same.

Feb 20, 2011
1:49 pm
#159 Gra wrote:

I have a sweatshirt from old navy and it has the same exact tag in it. Inside there is a clear jelly like material that exploded and got all over me.

Mar 7, 2011
2:02 am
#160 E wrote:

Where are these hidden tags located on the jeans?

Apr 24, 2011
12:33 am
#161 Employee wrote:

Jesus-Flipping-Christ.

Are you people serious?

Just last week I found FIVE of these tags in with the toddler denim, which is-oh-about two feet by four feet. FIVE. Which means about $120.00 is gone. So the company lost out on that money. Which means less workers, and higher prices and more customers complaining about high prices and no help on the sales floor.

If I walked around the store informing every customer, that HEY LOOK HERE. Here is a hidden security tag to stop you from steeling, want me to cut it out for you? Then you can steal it! And I will get less hours, and get a low pay cheque. Wouldn’t that be AWESOME?

Get over it.

Apr 24, 2011
12:34 am
#162 Employee wrote:

ahem. Stealing, not steeling.

May 12, 2011
4:19 pm
#163 Mylissa wrote:

almost all of my old navy jeans have these in them and i never take them out till they annoy me. mine have never set off any store alarms, weird that yours did.

Aug 12, 2011
2:33 am
#164 nunya wrote:

I love it personally because if the alarm beeps when i walk in the store you better believe its gonna beep when i walk out too. That much easier to steal whatever i want! Thx Old Navy!

Aug 12, 2011
2:39 am
#165 nunya wrote:

RE:Employee wrote:–First stealing was spelt wrong now You spelt check wrong too! moron! Goes to show the requirements it takes to be loss prevention, not many. your a fag, “get over it”!

Aug 26, 2011
12:58 am
#166 K wrote:

I just found it on a pair of jeans I’ve worn for quite awhile, only because the tag had fallen apart and the broken chip was scratching my leg. I don’t see how they could expect people to actually read the tag as it’s not located in an obvious position. You wouldn’t even see it normally unless you were looking for it.

Oct 22, 2011
2:38 pm
#167 Heather wrote:

Thanks for the info about the hidden tags. Today I went to the mall with my family and I kept making the alarm go off. I was wearing old navy jeans that I got for my b’day and of course I wouldn’t look for some stupid tag in my pants. Once I read your post I cut of the tag and I hope I won’t get humiliated again, in front of heaps of people! Thank you.

Oct 25, 2011
5:06 am
#168 susan wrote:

What I am really worried about is what metal is inside these tags. Lead is extremely toxic to us and I wonder if there is any lead inside these tags. does anyone Know?

Nov 23, 2011
12:14 pm
#169 Totally Frustrated wrote:

My son had this same issue for the past 2 weeks. We had this problem in the post office, in Kohls and many other stores.. After a frustrating 2 weeks, I googled for this problem and found this post where people have been complaining for the past 5 years. …and surprise surprise..I looked inside my son’s Old Navy Jeans, and there it was…the stupid tag. Is Old Navy so stupid that it cannot learn for more than 5 years !

Dec 8, 2011
1:05 am
#170 sue wrote:

You fucking idiots….you didnt beep when you left old navy because it WAS deactivated…then YOU didnt follow the instriuctions to remove before wearing. Which means, as stated previously, at some point the tag re-activated. And then you dont understand how you are setting off alarms at other retailers????

Dec 9, 2011
1:39 pm
#171 sarah wrote:

My son is Autistic. Setting off alarms every where you go is a huge problem. Total distress. If you know anything about Autism, you know what I mean. Having a HIDDEN security device poses a problem. The customer doesn’t know about it and obviously wouldn’t search for it to be removed ( because they weren’t told the HIDDEN security device was there, duh ). So the customer and other shops are left to deal with alarm after alarm after alarm. With autistic people this would be consider mental distress !! I also agree, what type of metal are we dealing with ? They should get rid of these devices. Create more jobs by hiring changing room attendents. Changing room attendents can physically count your garments before entering the changing room and count again as you exit the changing room ). As this is the only area that goes with out cameras. Problem solved and ( as an Old Navy employee complained of job loss from theft ? ) you create more jobs with needing to fill the changing room attendent position. I don’t want to purchase items that have hidden metal devices inside and distress my autistic son. I won’t be shopping at Old Navy ( and yes I mean it ).

Dec 9, 2011
3:54 pm
#172 Drizzy wrote:

Thanks For All This Helpful Info.! Now Im Going To Old Navy For All My Needs πŸ˜‰

Dec 24, 2011
8:57 pm
#173 rachael wrote:

wow, everyone here seems to work at old navy….point is, its happened to me so many times i forget. Its awful, embarrasing and every store wants to search you becuase you set off the alarm. Yeah, it must be our fault for not seeing the ‘hidden’ security tag? All you who think we should stop complaining, we are complaining because the tag is F*&^%% HIDDEN …. its hidden from the person who bought the item? How stupid is that. In which case to all of you 100 old navy reps who have bombarded this post, make sure you deactivate them please! Having the nerve to tell customers we are wrong becuase of loss prevention. I dont care about your loss prevention, do what you need to do, but embarrasing us at other stores, its not funny. And to those of you who dont care and think its no big deal, go shopping with a tag in and walk in and out of and apple store, then you tell me if its no big deal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My F*&%% jeans have set me up!!!!!!!! everyone looks at you like a criminal, you are basically searched, its humiliating and awful.

Apr 1, 2012
1:01 am
#174 Retailsucks wrote:

i think customers that complain or post about something like this is stupid. First of all why would we put a sticker on the outside of merch that says please remove hidden sensor before wearing. This is supposed to be a theft deterrent duh! People get a life and stop harrassing old navy!

Jun 26, 2013
2:06 pm
#175 Kurt Nitsagen wrote:

This has been a durable and educational thread.
*
Let’s see what has been established.
*
Merchants use whatever methods might work, in order to combat shoplifting.
These methods include total disregard for the Bill of Rights.
These methods include total disrespect for the customer, the benefactor of the store.
Harrassing customers, far beyond sensible limits, is fair game in this arena of shame.
*
An alarm, of whatever kind, does NOT, absolutely NOT, ABSOLUTELY NOT
convey some sort of power on a busybody with a badge to detain, or even to touch
the person who perhaps caused the alarm to sound.
*
Some stores install a button which an employee can push to sound an alarm,
and the employee does that when instructed, in order to support harrassment
of someone whom the Loss Prevention Officer (not an officer, note) suspects.
If you do not believe this, you must have absolutely no idea where bears defecate.
*
IT IS YOUR RIGHT, and in the face of this awful harrassment, YOUR DUTY
to UTTERLY DEFY anybody to stop you if an alarm sounds when you depart a store.
*
If somebody touches you without your consent, or tries to detain you against your will,
it is your right, and I suggest your duty, to resist this assault and attempt to imprison
with utmost force, violence, noise, and enthusiasm, including use of any weapon you
legally carry, or any object you may find nearby with which to defend yourself.
*
Can I boil this down to 3 words? You bet I can. Here they come.
*
TAKE NO SHIT

Jan 24, 2015
2:04 pm
#176 Kate wrote:

Just saying, people are saying shit like you have the time to write about this…. How lame…. Yet your writing on the same post! Some people are soo immature it makes me crack up. Sometimes people need to rant or share what bothers them… And if your going to say you have the time to write this… Why are you responding? Immature stupid people grow up its not like you own the store, it’s just another store who takes advantage of people’s money!

Jan 24, 2015
2:09 pm
#177 Lusie hynine wrote:

Old navy has lost my business.. I buy something at there store almost every time I go to the mall! And I’m happy to say I will no longer go there, this has happened to me one to many times and the

May 4, 2016
8:37 pm
#178 Lewis shirt wrote:

This happened to me today in JC Penny and found this f***king tag hidden inside my Lewis shirt. This is so f***king ridiculous to hide it inside the shirt and make me embrassed at the stores. F***king dick heads.

Jul 8, 2017
1:19 am
#179 Bitcoin2DaMoon wrote:

Lokeesha, to respond to your comment #10, the government could still easily pinpoint any individual to which they had a means of tracking regardless of whether an item with such a device was paid with cash or not. They can simply plot your route and deduct who are based on where you live and sleep to everywhere else that you go. All things considered, I’m certainly not suggesting that is the case with these tags that simply seem to be some sort of magnetic strip in a pattern that can easily be deactivated upon checkout before leaving the store. On a side note, the only reason I even noticed this thread in the first place is because my wife bought some jeans off of the Internet from then and it got packaged and delivered to our house with the security tag still attatched. All things considered, it is one of those plastic clips that seem to be almost rivetted… Now that I just typed that out, that totally makes no since. Surely there isn’t a hole in the jeans. This thing absolutely has to be magnetic of some sort, right? Nevermind, seriously, thanks for all of your help though… I’m sitting here realizing that 2017 is over half way through and I am the first one to leave a comment at all this year and likely even the only one to for the rest of the year after seeing that only one person commented in 2016. Then there’s a big jump up to 2 people commented back in 2015. But what, not even a single comment from 2014. That averages to about one comment per year for the last what 3.5 years? Anyways, as I happened across this thread and began to read the comments, I just couldn’t stop. Best damn entertainment all day. Anyways, had to share my experience and 2 cents worth all things considered. Have a good year folks…

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